The Dutch Filmmaker in Chinese Cinematography: Pieter Fleury
by Tjan Ho Lai – The Orange Panda
“China has given me so much, especially the trust the people here have placed in me. This trust is the basis of my love for China.”
These words come from Pieter Fleury (b. 1955), a renowned Dutch film director who began his career in China. I recently had the opportunity to interview Pieter Fleury during his visit to Shanghai. Back for a day trip after a seven-year absence, Fleury reflects on his long-standing connection with the country. Shanghai is the city where his cinematic journey in China began. Fleury’s story begins when he first came to China on a photography trip to research his directorial debut in China.
With more than 45 years of extensive film experience, Fleury has worked with well-known actors such as Sean Connery (James Bond, 007) and Marcello Mastroianni (La Dolce Vita, 8½), won the Golden Calf at the Netherlands Film Festival, taught at film schools worldwide and served on juries for various festivals, including the Chengdu Film Festival. Through his production company Golden Monkey Enterprises, he has produced six documentaries in China. His filmography covers a wide range of subjects, including Shanghai – The People’s City (1985), North Korea: A Day in the Life (2004) and Bells of the Emperor (2010).
Coming to China
What motivated you to come to China? Do you have any interesting stories from your first visit?
I came to China in 1979, just after I graduated from the Dutch Film Academy. At the age of 24, I was a freshman who had borrowed some money from my aunt and took a big gamble by going to China. For four weeks I traveled with Walther. a friend from the film academy, through Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Guilin, Changsha, Shaoshan, Shanghai, Beijing, Liaoning and Shenyang, on two combined trips organized by the Dutch-Chinese Friendship Association (VNC). The trip had a profound impact on me, especially after meeting so many warm and friendly people in a country taking its first steps toward a modern China.
Becoming a film director was my childhood dream. But how do you make such a dream a reality? A film requires financing and, more importantly, permission from the Beijing Film Bureau. Determined to make it happen, I started planning, working hard and hoping for some luck.
During our trip to Shenyang, I met a friend who wanted to learn English, while I was eager to learn Mandarin. Coincidentally, his uncle was the head of the Film Bureau in Beijing. His introduction was exactly the luck I had hoped for, as it led to a meeting with his uncle and the Bureau staff at the Beijing Hotel in 1980; the same hotel where Nixon met Mao in 1972 during the early years of Ping-Pong diplomacy.
How did that meeting go?
I arrived the night before and spent the night, knot in my stomach, mulling over what to say, I only had one chance. The next morning I found myself facing nine government officials, seated on classic Chinese rosewood furniture. I presented my idea to make a promotional film about the rural areas and cities of mainland China for tourist and commercial purposes. A Dutch friend had advised me to bring gifts, as this is a sign of respect within China’s tribal system. So I brought small bottles of liquor, decorated with red ribbons, and handed them over.
The men smiled and applauded young Pieter.
The Film Bureau delegation listened attentively to my proposal and quickly got to the point: “So, how much money are you going to give us?” I panicked; I had almost no money and tried desperately to think of an answer. Finally I said, “2,500 U.S. dollars.” At the time, that was a significant amount for me.
The group burst into laughter, got up and walked to the window.
At that point, I was left sitting alone in my chair, unsure and alone. The group deliberated and discussed the situation. Finally, the head of the Film Office called the meeting to order, came to me and said, “Tomorrow morning we will meet here again and give our final verdict.”
The next day, the words I had been waiting for were finally spoken: “While we understand your financial difficulties, we accept your proposal.”
I felt immense gratitude and a surge of self-confidence. Somehow I had managed to strike a deal with a group of government officials in China. The Film Bureau probably didn’t think I could pull it off, but they were willing when the time came.
This marked the beginning of my film career in China, thanks to the support of the compassionate people at the Film Bureau. After shooting my first film, Beyond Tokyo (1983), I was ready for my next big adventure, this time in Shanghai, China
Shanghai, The People’s City (1985)
What was your idea for this film? Take us through the creative process from idea to post-production.
After my photography trip in 1979, I realized that no one actually knew anything about China. The last images in the West were from during the Cultural Revolution, and most people thought China was poor and communist. However, I had experienced China as a country full of warm and friendly people, who worked hard and studied diligently, ready to embrace modernization and catch up with the world. This was the China I wanted to show as a documentary filmmaker. I decided to focus on Shanghai, the city of the people, the face of China, and the most vibrant, lively place in the country.
I signed the deal with the Film Bureau in 1984, but before I could start, I had to set up bilateral agreements between Shanghai and Rotterdam to get approval for my documentary. Then I was invited to the Jin Jiang Hotel, where I stayed for five months. In three months, I completed my research in cooperation with the Film Bureau. Then my film crew (cameraman Goert Giltay and sound engineer Bert van den Dungen) arrived and we filmed the documentary in two months.
During the production we visited several locations, but being one of the first foreign filmmakers many people had ever seen, we attracted a lot of attention. Many a curious onlooker gathered every time we were visibly filming. To avoid this, at one point we hid our equipment in cardboard boxes on a small cart with wheels and filmed the daily life of Shanghai from an exclusive movable spot. I monitored everything remotely with a transmitter and receiver to make sure everything went smoothly.
How did you realize this film despite cultural and language barriers? Tell me about the obstacles you had to overcome in producing this film.
One day I was playing soccer in a square when I met William. We got along immediately and he soon became a good friend, inviting me to dinners at his family’s home. Over time, his parents treated me like one of their own, even giving me the name “冯磊.” The pinyin pronunciation of 冯磊 is Féng lěi, which is similar to Fleury and begins with William’s family name (冯). There is a scene in the film where William’s entire family comes together for a meal; a heartfelt moment of connection that ended up in the final film.
William once told me about a place where people danced, like in a nightclub. It sounded incredible, especially since the campaign against spiritual pollution was still sensitive. When I first saw the club, I was surprised; it was nothing I had expected in post-Cultural Revolution China. At first the Film Bureau hesitated to include this in the documentary, but when I explained it, they understood that this was also part of modern China and something they could be proud of. Shanghai was everything others said it was not.
What are the main differences and similarities between Shanghai in 1985 and 2024?
The most striking difference between 2024 and 1985 is how much has been lost. Cultural heritage has been replaced by skyscrapers, making Shanghai feel distant and impersonal. Renewal does not always mean improvement. Progress must be viewed carefully, especially when it threatens to erase the cultural heritage of Shanghai residents. However, one thing has not changed: the people of Shanghai have not lost their sense of humor or togetherness.
William, Pieter’s comrade in arms and Shanghainese for forty years, reflects, “Shanghai, the city has changed, but the people have not. Society has become more individualized due to globalization, capitalism and digital technology, but local communities, architectural heritage and culture must be protected and promoted in Shanghai.”
The opening scene of Shanghai, The People’s City (1985), shows a suave singer in a tuxedo, backed by a symphony orchestra, performing in a disco with red velvet curtains in the background. Young adults dance and swing rhythmically as the refrain of “Alibaba, Alibaba” echoes repeatedly through the club. The rest of the film shows daily life in Shanghai, told alongside the Constitution of the People’s Republic of China (1954).
Shanghai, The People’s City (1985) offers an observational and humanistic perspective on the rapid modernization of Shanghai as a city, along with its people and culture. The film was shot with two 16mm film cameras, capturing different angles and every moment of daily life, with the help of an interpreter and through transmitter and microphone.
China’s past, present and future
What was your most important lesson in China?
The most important lesson I learned in China is to just be sincere.
Don’t try to act bigger than you are. Pride always precedes a fall.
How did you overcome the cultural obstacles between the Netherlands and China?
The key is to learn the language, even just a few words in the local dialect can make a big difference. Building friendships with people is essential. Travel the country, meet the people and immerse yourself in their lives.
What do you see as the main challenges for the film industry, and how can filmmakers adapt to the evolution of short content and streaming platforms?
The biggest challenge for filmmakers today is creating a gripping, emotional and compelling story, one that really resonates with people.
The question is: How do you reach your audience? What message do you want to convey? These are the essential considerations as the industry evolves.
What is your advice for creative storytellers interested in presenting China to the outside world?
The story must always be honest. Creative storytellers must gain the trust of the people, including the government and relevant agencies. This trust allows them to operate and create space for artistic expression. The size of the story, whether big or small, does not matter.
What is most important is the feeling it evokes, because that generates sympathy. And in today’s world, we need more sympathy. It has to be positive.
What is your final message for China?
Trust your friends. Keep them close to you. Many people love China.
Contact Pieter Fleury
E-mail: golden@monkey.demon.nl & website: https://goldenmonkey.nl/
Contact Tjan Ho Lai
E-mail: theorangepanda@protonmail.com & website: https://theorangepanda.com
so is fine
